"Perception vs. Reality: The Changing Landscape of Automotive Swap Meets" 277 FULL EPISODE

Swell AI Transcript: Swap Meet DONE.mp3

John: That's a good way to start the show. I've got a good way to end the show now.

Derek: Other podcasts hosts just jump right in with the topic.

John: Let your motors run. Oh, no, you got to have some little thing before I get to the intro.

Announcer: So you want to talk about cars. Ferrari. CRX, and even down to your great-granddad's beardless. Welcome to No Driving Gloves, the Car Talk Authority, where experience, knowledge, and controversy share the same seat. Enjoy the ride. Now your host, Jon Hamm.

John: How was that for the transition to the intro there, Derek? Are you doing okay this morning?

Derek: Well, I'm doing great. Transition was okay. Could be better.

John: Well, you get what you pay for.

Derek: I don't get paid anything.

John: But if you're going to enjoy the topic that you're going to hear here, hear here, that's like doo doo. But if you're going to enjoy the topic you're going to hear here, remember to share this episode with a friend. Best thing you can do for us. And we're going to dive into There's talk among people that the automotive swap meet is dying. When this topic first appeared, Derek and I both thought, great topic. Then we started to research. Derek, do you, what's your feeling? Do you think the automotive swap meet without getting too in depth is a thing of the past?

Derek: If I were to take the word of my friends and acquaintances within the car world, my view would be that, yes, swap meets are dying.

John: But you have odd friends.

Derek: I don't even know if odd is strong enough of a word.

John: Some have recently turned in their tin can and strings for a cell phone. And by recently, I meant within the last seven or eight days.

Derek: Yeah, exactly.

John: No, and I mean, you said that to me and I go, I kind of agree with you and you threw up a potential cause. And I came up with other reasons that could be causing the shrinking of the automotive swap meet. And I don't think I shared any of those with you, but I had my own opinions and I kind of agreed with you. And then doing a little bit of research, the numbers aren't saying these things are dying. Carlisle was up. Hershey was up. Iola was up. The big swap meets and I'm not saying just Carlyle fall or Carlyle spring Carlyle Ford Nats Carlyle I Believe they call it imports now and not kick car import or whatever but imports Chrysler's at Carlyle and Corvettes at Carlyle all of the all of their meats were up I Don't know. Let me know if the delay improves their Derek. I I think it's a perception thing. And I think it is a changing of the guards.

Derek: Yeah, I agree with that. You know, the one thing we didn't find in research, though. The articles are saying that attendance is up and more people are coming to the swap meets, and by no means am I trying to make a case for swap meets to die here, because I think they're important. But I also wonder how well the vendors are doing. at the swap meets, because of course, you know, people can keep going and it can have attendance records, you know, from previous years. But are the vendors selling as much? Are the vendor spaces shrinking? You know, all of that kind of stuff too, that plays into the swap meet, because a lot of these swap meets are, are more than just a swap meet. I mean, you go to like Hershey fall meet, which is the AACA big you know, Mecca to many of the swapmeat world. Uh-oh, I think we've completely lost John. A one-sided discussion about swapmeats is going to be very, very uninteresting. All right, well, John's back.

John: You were saying the Mecca of the car world.

Derek: Well, yeah, Hershey, I was saying that, you know, Hershey fall meat to many is is the Mecca of the car world. And, you know, what I was discussing was the fact that, you know, I'd be interested to know how the vendors are doing, not just how attendance is doing, because the vendors are the lifeboat blood of the swap meat. That's what makes a swap meat, right? SWAT meets can have higher attendance because like Hershey, there are many other things going on. I mean, the last day of Hershey is the big car show. There's antique car vendors that go there. Oh, gosh, I'm blanking on the name of the area where all the cars are for sale at Hershey. Let's just call it the for sale section right now. Yeah so there's a lot more than just the swap meet itself that is occurring that can draw people in. And I mean the other great thing about these swap meets like Hershey, Iola has a big one, Carlisle, all of the Carlisle ones are big that John listed. They're also there great because their community event their car community event may bring like minded people together in one space. I guess maybe the discussion can also be your swap meets just. The idea of a swap me and what it used to be say in the nineteen seventies eighties nineties. Is that changing? Is the look of a swap meet moving and our old ideals of a swap meet becoming something new?

John: Well, let's look at Hershey for a second. They changed a couple of years back. And instead of being a Wednesday through Saturday type meet and that, they're now a Tuesday through Friday and they have no weekend dates. That doesn't make sense to me because unfortunately people do work. And I think having that Saturday available, maybe that's why people don't feel Hershey is say as big, the people that are going and the attendees and the vendors, because they don't have that Saturday where everybody shows up and the place is packed because now people filter in throughout the week. So instead of having, We'll use very abstract numbers. Instead of having 1,000 people on Wednesday and 1,000 people on Thursday and 1,000 people on Friday and 3,000 people on Saturday, now we have 2,000 on Tuesday and 2,000 on Wednesday and 2,000 on Thursday. So the crowds don't seem as massive. Doing research for this episode, that really surprised me that they eliminated the Saturday day of Hershey. And it's now move in on Monday, swap meet Tuesday through Friday, and we're all gone. That works great if you want to be a Monday through Friday nine to five swap meet vendor. But unfortunately, swap meets don't work that way.

Derek: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, that's a lot of the vendors. This is their essentially side hustle, their second job. And, you know, if their first job if they can't get time off now, granted, everyone I know that goes to Hershey, it's just blocked out in their calendar every year. But not everyone can do that. And it makes it tough.

John: Now, remember, I used to run the largest motorcycle swap meet in the United States. And, you know, at my peak, we had over 1100 vendors. And a lot of those vendors, you say do it as a side hustle, a lot of those vendors do it as a career.

Derek: Well, yeah, there are the ones that it's a career, but there's also the ones that are, you know, I know the ones that are just doing it as kind of a side hustle. You know, so it's when you're talking about the Monday to Friday swap meet, that's tough for those people, the career ones, it's fine. So, John, do you still follow the swap meet that you used to do? And how is how in the motorcycle world, how is that one doing? Is it still doing as well?

John: Well, I pay a little bit of attention to it and they run it a little bit different now. You know, that time's passed. When I was there, we grew it and we actually had to separate it into two fields, which the vendors were mixed on, but there was no way to shrink it back and try to put it all into one field. And now they have shrunk it back a little bit, put it all into one field and been able to monetize the other area a lot more profitably. When I was there, it was an area that wasn't utilized. So it began to monetize it. And then all of a sudden people could say, Hey, wait, people are going there. So. It's changed a little bit. And they took advantage of 2020, honestly. You know, they couldn't have a swap meet that year, as many places couldn't have a swap meet. And they revamped and they actually shrunk the swap meet because I guess it's pretty much known. They loved having a waiting list. And what I did is I pretty much eliminated the waiting list. A waiting list, you have power over it, like I said, it took away the power. And I'm not somebody who likes to wield an unyielding power. I like to work with people. And so what if, you know, we don't have a waiting list, I was gonna have somebody to replace you. I never had vacant spots. The place was sold out. You know, when I added 60 spots, we had 60 more vendors show up even if there wasn't a waiting list. But I think The management preferred having the waiting list. They wanted a little bit smaller. Having the two swap meets in two separate sections of the park was a little bit different. I mean, it's like saying, you know, you have Hershey or you have Carlisle and you can say, oh, well, we've got an additional 200 vendors if you go three blocks down the road. Wow. At barbers that's still within our 800 acre park or whatever At it's still you've got to get on a tram and you've got to go somewhere and it was uh, So to summarize what i've said the swap meets a little bit smaller, but it's smaller there by design. It's not smaller Because they didn't want because the vendors left. The number of people that come to the event, now it's a multifaceted event. I mean, there's bike shows, there's racing, there's, you know, there's a lot of things going on. And not everybody there's for the swap, who is there is for the swap meet. But no, I don't think that, I don't think that swap meet has shrunk at all. Other than what they've designed it to shrink.

Derek: Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. And while you were talking, it also made me think about Carlisle events versus other swap meets because interestingly, and it just popped into my head again, while you were kind of talking about that, the kind of, I guess, business strategy, I'll call it that, that Carlisle events has. would be interesting to compare to the other swap meets because of course for those that don't know how Carlisle events runs and swap meets. They have very brand-specific events that go on. Corvettes at Carlyle, that's one of the big ones that I got used to hearing about. I never made it to Corvettes at Carlyle in my time at NCM, but knew the people that run it, know that it's a big, big event for most people in the Corvette world. But they also have, I think they just call it Ford's at Carlisle. And then I think there's a, is there, isn't there a Mustang specific show at Carlisle?

John: They might have a Mustang specific one, but don't forget they also have their fall and spring meets, which are.

Derek: They do, they do. But, you know, it's to me, it's also interesting that they step into having very brand specific events. Where is most other places are just a you know kind of a wide open you think of like the aca her she fall meet that we've been talking about. Yeah that's just everything under the sun pretty much there you don't get a lot of foreign. Yeah modern foreign parts early you know foreign car stuff is there but. Yeah it would be interesting to see if brand specific events at carlisle. how they're doing. And at least for Corvettes at Carlisle, I know that's a strong show that is always packed.

John: Now, the brand specific ones are still getting, I'm not going to say record attendance, but they're growing. Yeah. The attendance year over year seems to be more. I mean, you always have those peaks, you know, 2010, 2011, which is kind of the best for a car swap meets and that. Why? I don't know. Do you think some of the reason forget the Internet, you know, the Internet's there and places have either learned to deal with the Internet or you become Sears and you have 12 stores left in the country. I was just talking yesterday to somebody about the local car crews in here and how it used to be. We just happen to be at that shopping center that the original kind of cars and coffee thing in Birmingham started. And then I said, well, move from here. And then it went to this location. And then it went to this location. And this location said it was fine because they already hosted a car type swap or a kind of a car show. And it was the AACA. monthly cruise in. It used to be at a donut shop and it just overgrew that by miles. And they, when this new place opened, one of the owners is a member of the AACA, I believe, and invited him to hang out there. So they would come on the first weekend of the month. Well, the AACA people hated the cars and coffee group. They didn't like the new exotics. They didn't like the new foreign cars. They didn't like, you know, even the new Fox body Mustangs and American cars. So they ran them out of there. And I see the AACA, a lot of the people in the AACA are so close minded as to what a classic car is or an antique car is. And if it's not a 1948 Chevy or if it's not what, you know, whatever you want to say, it's doesn't belong in my parking lot and it doesn't belong to be next to my car. Is it, they're not welcoming to the change in car culture? Like you said, there's not a lot of new foreign car parts at Hershey. Well, guess what? The people that are building cars right now, the hottest cars, you know, the hardest, hottest car collecting segment right now are cars 1980 to the year 2000, you know, the Radwood era. Is Hershey even welcoming of the, the Radwood people? I would, not being there, I would venture to say no. One of the beats that we specifically talked about here and the one that is the only one that I can really see declining attendance figures was the Chickasaw swap meet, which I've attended and it was a great little event. They're very strict, 1895 to 1845. That's all you can have there. 1845. Huh?

Derek: You said 1845.

John: Oh, yeah. 1945.

Derek: Now, I mean, that that would be amazing for me. I would love to go to that show.

John: But the problem is the stuff you want to sell us and the the, you know, ACA type cars, the pre 40 pre war cars. and you're not welcoming and letting us even get our foot in the door to be exposed to the culture by letting us sell our Japanese Akira parts or our Lexus parts at your swap meet. So how are we ever going to be introduced to this old stuff and purchase it? I think it's really a generational thing and again an accepting thing. It's getting better but I still think that's That's going to be the core thing. I don't think swap meets are dead. I don't think they're dying. I think they're changing. And that's why people think they're dying. The longtime comers think that they're dying. But the shows that are so rigid with what they allow in, that's why they you know, they're knocking on death's door. They're, you know, a couple of years away from being gone because you're not allowing You've got to bring the people that are interested in cars in your doors and then teach them about what your focus is. Because if you don't, if you don't bring them in with some, some piece of candy, they're not going to look at the, you know, vegetables. And that's kind of where I see it.

Derek: And I'll jump in because, you know, with the AACA, you know, there, although the swap meet, at least the last time I was there, it's been a few years. tends to lean towards older cars, I will point out that they do allow any production vehicle, although obviously one-offs, things like that are special classes, but they are a 25-year and older car club. Any vehicle that's 25 years old, or older, the AACA recognizes and allows, you know, into their events, things like that. So, you know, I think with that group, there's probably not a lot of the generation that likes the newer cars in that way that are joining the AACA, because I think the AACA, we also have to look at the fact that clubs like the AACA, they've You're to look at it, I guess, from the business world, right? And think about it in a business strategy way. They've built a brand around old American cars. So. It's possible that the younger generation that has the more modern cars that John's been talking about Yeah, when they see something like the ACA, they're like, oh, well, I don't fit that just because they've they've been around so long with this brand of old American cars that even though they're welcoming of more modern vehicles. No one feels comfortable because of the history of the group. And yeah, with with places like Chickasha or Chickasha, whichever way is appropriate to say it. I mean, they're just they're just kind of shooting themselves in the foot, unfortunately, where they're staying very year specific for guys like myself. Great. Love it. But there's very few of the younger generation that are into that early Vehicles and the older generations dying off so that show you the folks that i know that go to that show. They don't foresee it being around much longer every year they go there's fewer and fewer vendors fewer and fewer. People showing up so at some point somebody's gonna pull the plug but. I think these places have to be aware as well of the, for lack of a better term here, I guess the brand that they have built as the organization that's hosting the event, because, you know, your brand is what makes people feel welcome or not. Uh, you know, the, the CCCA now they don't, I don't think they have a swap meet anywhere, but you know, the classic car club of America. they're a very strict club that has, you know, very strict rules. And I know people involved in that club. And they're also struggling for membership, just because they're so limiting. So I think we have to keep that in mind, too, that these swap meets and and the groups that host them have to make sure that They do something to make everyone feel welcome if they have a history that has a skewed view of being very narrow in what they focus on. And I think that's where Carlyle events probably does a really good job because they do the brand specific there, you know, open everyone, you know, Corvettes at Carlyle. It's not like, well, we're only for Corvettes from 1953 to, you know, 1982, the end of the C3 generation. We don't care about any of the modern stuff. No, it's if you got a Corvette, if you love Corvettes, get here and have fun.

John: Now, then we can go Carlyle. I mean, Carlyle had It's changed. It used to be the Kit Car Import Nationals. Actually, it used to be the Kit Car Nationals and it was the Kit Car Import Nationals because they needed a place for the Japanese type cars to go. It eventually became the Import Kit Car Nationals. Now it's just Carlisle Import because the kit car community itself died. So the show did change. You know, the show had to change. And, you know, they tried. They tried for years and they tried all different things to try to keep that kit car excitement alive. And if you still have a kit car company or something, you can, you know, attend the imports, but it's really not looked on fondly. And they even had the problem when it was kit car import, and then the change to import kit car, they had issues with the tuner cars and the way that crowd behaved. And they started a separate event elsewhere the same weekend specifically for those cars. So they took the bad element or the undesired element away from the show and then slowly brought the two back together. So Carlisle has a very good management strategy and how to how to deal with this. I just it's something that as you know bothered me or whatever, and I guess I'm very closed-minded and I'm very rigid on my thoughts, is that they don't accept the newcomers. And I mean, I was saying this back in the early 90s, way before I had a podcast, way before I earned a paycheck really from cars. I would go to a cruise in in my CRX with, you know, custom wheels and, you know, it's booming car stereo and everything. And you get frowned upon because I wasn't desired at the regular cruise in because I wasn't in a Charger. I wasn't in a Chevelle. I wasn't, you know, I guess you could say Fox body Mustangs, even though they were current, they were kind of accepted, but my car wasn't accepted because it was Japanese. And it always bothered me. And then I started to get, you know, started to go to shows and I'm going, we're getting younger. I mean, we're In our late 20s, early 30s, and I'm going to these shows and you're still playing me the Beach Boys. You're still playing me Jan and Dean. You've got to mix in a little bit of, you know, Eminem or you've got to put some Tupac in there. You've got to put some Motley Crue or some Van Halen. Let's get, you know, Don't jump from, I guess, even Jan and Dean to the 90s. Let's get some 70s and 80s music being played at these events. But it's always the 60s, you know, whatever. I always think Beach Boys, Jan and Dean, but, you know, Foghat or whatever.

Derek: Yeah, it is. It's a vicious cycle, right? I mean, you think about, uh, you know, when you're, when you're young and you're starting in it and nobody wants to accept you. So you're always, Oh, you know, the old timers, they just, you know, they want to do their thing and they don't want to think about what the new interests are and hopefully. And, and maybe every generation says this, but hopefully our generation. you know, John, yours and my generation and those coming up behind us can remember as they grow into these things, they can, they can remember the feelings they have when they're the young generation and make that change. Because the other thing we have to, I think, remember is that, you know, right now with these swap meets, John, you and I are only really second or third generation away from the people who founded these things. So these swap meets are kind of new, right? I mean, they're, they're only two to three generations old. And so there's still, I think in some ways there's still that grasp of Yeah well this is what we create i mean some of the founders of these are still alive and they're like well this is what i created and this is this is the way we we intended it to be and we don't want that to change. As we move further away from those founders and and the stalwarts of. What it was created as. it can then meld into what it needs to be to keep alive and keep going. I think that makes sense. That all makes sense, John. Well, a show like that's I mean, that's unless somebody comes in and goes, dude, we got it. We got to bring it up into the 1950s or 60s. At least I don't don't see that show surviving much longer. I was I was going to try to try to paint a picture of that swap meet at Pebble Beach. It would have to be temporary structures set up like Rodeo Drive, and classical music in each temporary structure. Maybe Pergo floors emulate hardwood. and some soft classical music playing, and all the vendors would have to be wearing some sort of suit. Ladies would have to be wearing very nice dresses. Only the highest-end parts would be allowed. Coach-built parts only, sir.

John: They would all be cleaned and ice blasted so that.

Derek: Yes.

John: Now, see, I was going exactly opposite because they now have a Concord de Limones, you know, during Pebble Beach.

Derek: Well, during Pebble Beach week.

John: During car weeks. And that's what I'm saying. What would. It would be interesting to try to introduce that swap meet. uh category there you see just wandering around and oh hi ralph you know you coming out with a new slightly new color of the polo shirt this year and you know people you bump into and hey randy uh i heard you found a new roll of duesenberg blueprints you're gonna build you're gonna build that cut custom by you know it would be a really interesting uh swap meet and maybe since nobody's doing it We're looking for investors Derek and I have claimed the Pebble Beach swap meet now if that's not trademarked if not we're going to be the The Coastal California August automotive purchasing excursions And we'll have a special edition American Express card for it It'll be a platinum card, but it'll be patinaed.

Derek: I don't know. Well, that's only if it if it's preservation class. I mean, if it's if it's anything else, if we're expecting to win, you know, first place at first in class or anything like that, it's it's going to have to be an over restored American Express card.

John: Well, that would be the chrome plated card.

Derek: OK, so we'll have a couple of a couple versions.

John: We'll take, we'll take, we'll take the inspiration from the aluminum apple cards. We'll get them. So I don't know. I disagree that swap meets are going away. I think they will go away if there's not some acceptance of the new cultures. I think a swap meets that aren't accepting are the ones that we're seeing in the decline. And those that are trying to work with, you know, people born, you know, after 1970 are growing and seeing, you know, activity. I've never been to Iola. I'm not too experienced with it. But I, you know, I know they're a good mix of cars. And like we said, Hershey has a lot of lot of things and they entertain the pre-war people and they, they get up and, you know, I tried to see if there was ever a Beretta on the show field that, you know, Hershey and, but I wonder what the AACA judging on like Chevy Berettas are and Chrysler Shelby Daytonas or Dodge Shelby Daytonas, things like that would be, but what's, what's their best category? A grand top of the line AACA award.

Derek: Oh, you'd have to ask because you can get your junior.

John: Senior.

Derek: Senior, but yeah. Yeah. Maybe that's what it is.

John: Could you see your senior award winning AACA Dodge Caravan?

Derek: I think that would be very important. The Dodge Caravan and Plymouth Voyager are extremely important in automotive history.

John: I don't know. We, we kind of strayed a little bit. We never really did circle back around, but.

Derek: I think you just did. You mentioned that you don't think swap meets are coming to an end, especially the ones that are going to develop with the car communities that are growing and the more modern twist on car culture. I agree with that. Like I said in the beginning, if I hadn't gone and read some of the articles and looked at some of the swap meets, I don't attend a lot of swap meets again, the 40 hour a week, nine to five job makes it difficult to do that. You know to be able to travel and get out to these events that sometimes happen midweek. Again, like I said in the beginning, my view from those friends that do attend and are early car people might just be a bit skewed because again, they're not seeing what they used to see when they went 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago and there was a lot more You know, of the parts that they were looking for at these events. So to them, it's like, well, it's it's it's really dying off because I can't find anything. Well, you might not be able to find what you want, but the kids that are there that are in their 20s, they might be finding exactly what they want. And they think it's the greatest swap meet. There is just like you did when you were in your 20s and 30s.

John: And I do think we overlooked and it just occurred to me, we overlooked the numerous T-shirt vendors, sock vendors, hat vendors, things like that, that really don't belong in an automotive swap meet. Maybe one or two T-shirt vendors, but that's one thing we did at Barber's is everything was true vintage or true motorcycle merchandise. We didn't really allow a T-shirt vendor or Um, we didn't allow people, you know, just selling socks and things like that.

Derek: We kept it parts, but you gotta have, you gotta have one airbrush artist that you can take the picture of your 55 Chevy too. And he can airbrush your custom t-shirt with your 55 Chevy and your, you and your wife's characterized faces above it. Yeah. With the, with the sunset at the beach going down behind it, John.

John: Now the only non-automotive related booth that really should be there would be the cigar booth.

Derek: In most car cultures, that is very fitting.

John: Let us know your opinions on swap meets. Are we wrong? Are we right? Are we just totally lost? If you like this episode or if you go, hey, you know, you guys might have a point, share it with somebody that you maybe thinks doesn't agree with our view here. Or if you know of a meat that's struggling, share this episode with them. Maybe it's a waste of their time, but more than likely, they'll garner a little bit of knowledge out of this, whether they agree with us or not. That's their call. Everything's at nodrivinggloves.com. We're getting here late in the year and Derek and I are starting to put our Christmas lists up there. And of course, if you don't want to buy for us, we're sure things on our Christmas list will fit other car people in your life or maybe give you some ideas to ask for for yourself. Do you have anything else to go, Derek, or did I cut you off too early?

Derek: No, no. Interestingly, just Wrapping this up but i just thought about something and i i clicked on a couple of the different. Swap meet club websites and just flipping through the car show sections of the swap meets. And looking at a few of the pictures and i think that also says a lot about the event and what they're welcoming of. And maybe what their current leadership focus is on and aca if you kind of flip through their photos from the swap meet car show i don't think i see anything in the pictures that is post. 1960s at the latest. And Iola, interestingly, the main photo they use on their website for the car show, you can see everything from the I'm just looking here real quick again. 1950s, so nothing too early. Yeah, nothing like 30s era in the picture, at least. But one of the cars I can see in the picture is. A mid 80s Monte Carlo on the show field. You know, I mean, oh, and actually there, I just missed it. There's a a 90s, mid 90s Mustang convertible on the show field. So, you know, I think that that might also be telling of what these swap meet car shows are welcoming of. There's actually at the Iola picture, there's a square body Chevy truck, which is a cool truck, by the way. Yeah. So just kind of talking about that acceptance of the newer generations, just kind of look at those car show pictures and see what's out, you know, what's on the show field. That'll tell you a lot too.

John: I don't think I have anything else to add to that. So with no further ado, I think you all should, uh, y'all, I hate that I'm getting more and more Southern.

Derek: I was going to say Southern boy.

John: So until then, everybody, get off your ass and go burn some gas.

Announcer: This show was a part of the No Driving Gloves Network, produced and edited by John Viviani of Magic City Podcast with voice work by Gary Conger. So until the next exit.